{ subscribe_url:'//blogs.loc.gov/share/sites/library-of-congress-blogs/folklife.php' }

Ring Around the Rosie: Metafolklore, Rhyme and Reason

 

Kate Greenaway's Mother Goose or the Old Nursery Rhymes (1881) was the first publication of "Ring Around the Rosie" in English.  Greenaway's illustration shows children playing the game.  It was published in 1881 and is therefore in the public domain.

Kate Greenaway’s Mother Goose or the Old Nursery Rhymes (1881) was the first publication of “Ring Around the Rosie” in English. Her illustration was published in 1881 and is therefore in the public domain.

A recent blog post at Londonist describes “Five London Nursery Rhymes Depicting Death and Ruin.” The rhymes in question have diverse origins and histories, but what seems incontrovertible from James FitzGerald’s work is that they describe dark and portentous matters from English history.

Or do they? Looking closely at these rhymes, and at scholarship surrounding them, suggests other interpretations. I’ll discuss one of the rhymes in particular, because it tells us interesting things about folklore and our ideas about folklore: “Ring Around the Rosie,” or “Ring-a-Ring-a-Roses,” as it’s sometimes known.

FitzGerald’s text goes like this:

Ring-a-ring-a-roses,
A pocket full of posies,
A-tishoo! A-tishoo!
We all fall down.

 

 

FitzGerald states emphatically that this rhyme arose from the Great Plague, an outbreak of pneumonic plague that affected London in the year 1665:

Ring-a-Ring-a-Roses is all about the Great Plague; the apparent whimsy being a foil for one of London’s most atavistic dreads (thanks to the Black Death). The fatalism of the rhyme is brutal: the roses are a euphemism for deadly rashes, the posies a supposed preventative measure; the a-tishoos pertain to sneezing symptoms, and the implication of everyone falling down is, well, death.

This interpretation emerged in the mid-twentieth century, and has become widespread, but it has never been accepted by folklorists, for several reasons. First, like most folklore items, this rhyme exists in many versions and variants. This allows us to ask whether the specific images associated with the plague occur in all or even most versions. It turns out they don’t. Many versions have no words that sound like sneezes, and many versions don’t mention falling down. For example, Iona and Peter Opie give an 1883 version (in which “curchey” is dialect for “curtsey”):

A ring, a ring o’roses
A pocket full of posies
One for Jack and one for Jim and one for little Moses
A curchey in and a curchey out
And a curchey all together

 

Moreover, in many versions , everyone gets up again once they have fallen down, which hardly makes sense if falling down represents death.

“Posies,” or bouquets of flowers, are almost universal in the song. However, many versions do not make them portable but install them in in pots or bottles, which doesn’t fit well with the plague interpretation. William Wells Newell, writing in 1883, gave several versions, including:

Round the ring of roses
Pots full of posies
The one who stoops last
Shall tell whom she loves best

and

Ring around the rosie
Bottle full of posy
All the girls in our town
Ring for little Josie

 

On May 16, 1939, in Wiergate, Texas, John and Ruby Lomax collected an interesting version for the Library of Congress, from a group of African American schoolgirls. You can hear it in the player below. The words were as follows:

Ring around a Rosey
Pocketful o’ posies
Light bread, sweet bread, squat!
Guess who she told me, tralalalala
Mr. Red was her lover, tralalalala
If you love him, hug him!
If you hate him, stomp!

None of these versions fits the plague interpretation very well, but they do reveal other functions and meanings: the rhyme is often used as a playful courtship game in which children dance in a ring, then suddenly stoop, squat, curtsey (“curchey”), or in some cases fall to the ground. The last to do so (or the one that jumps the gun) has to pay a penalty, which is sometimes to profess love for (or hug or kiss) another child. In some versions, this child then takes up a place in the middle of the ring, representing the “rosie” or rose bush. Newell explicitly states that the game was played like this in America in the 1880s, and European analogs from the same time and later are similar. In many versions, then, the roses and posies signify what flowers often signify in traditional European culture: not suffering and death, but joy and love.

RosskamRosie

Children playing “Ring Around the Rosie” in Chicago, Illinois, April, 1941. Photo by Edwin Rosskam. Prints and Photographs Division. //hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/fsa.8a15771

The above observations show that “Ring Around the Rosie” is a “singing-game” or a “play-party song,” both of which are names for children’s dance songs. Plague theorists say it’s still possible that the plague was the original meaning, and that children pressed the rhyme into service for their games and dances. But there are other reasons, too, not to believe the plague story. For example, this rhyme and dance are internationally distributed, and records turn up on the European continent before they do in England. The Opies give versions from Germany, Switzerland, and Italy, among other places. Meanwhile, there’s no evidence the rhyme existed in English until the late 19th Century. Newell, writing in 1883, asserted that the rhyme was known in New Bedford, Massachusetts, in 1790, but he gave no evidence, and none has come to light. After this unsubstantiated claim, the rhyme doesn’t turn up in English until 1881. What evidence is there it survived undocumented since 1665?

defoe

Title page of The Dreadful Visitation: in a short account of the progress and effects of the plague by Daniel Defoe. This is one of several contemporary accounts of the plague year, none of which mentions anything resembling “Ring Around the Rosie.” Prints and Photographs Division. //hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/cph.3b41405

The claim that the rhyme is related to pestilence is even younger; the folklorists who diligently recorded the rhyme itself in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries never mention the plague interpretation, although they surely would have had they known it. The first evidence I’ve seen that people were connecting the rhyme with death and disaster is from 1949, when the newspaper The Observer ran a parody of the rhyme beginning “ring-a-ring-o’-geranium, a pocketful of uranium” and referring to the bombing of Hiroshima. In 1951, we find the first direct reference to the plague interpretation: Iona and Peter Opie state that some people believe the rhyme refers to the plague, but are not themselves convinced.

Finally, there’s simply no direct evidence. Even if the rhyme itself remained unrecorded for two hundred years after the plague, various types of evidence might exist: a description of children playing dancing-games referring to roses and mocking the plague, or oral traditions of the earliest informants making the link. As it turns out, though, neither of these kinds of evidence has turned up, despite meticulous day-to-day accounts of life in London in 1665, and accounts of the Plague by people who lived through it. So today’s scholars want to know: how did the first person who claimed a connection between the events of 1665 and this rhyme find out about that connection, and why can’t we find whatever evidence he or she had?

All this makes scholars skeptical, to say the least. In 2010 English folklorist and librarian Steve Roud noted that “the Plague origin is complete nonsense,” and in the 1980s, the Opies (who first recorded and debunked the belief in 1951) wrote: “We ourselves have had to listen so often to this interpretation we are reluctant to go out of the house.”

Still, the story only seems to have grown stronger in the second half of the twentieth century, and this itself is interesting to folklorists. After all, the story is itself folklore: a tale that was passed on by word of mouth first, then in writing and online media. And because it is also about folklore, folklorists classify it as “metafolklore”: folklore about folklore.

BrookeRingO'Roses

The cover of Leonard Leslie Brooke’s Ring O’ Roses shows nursery rhyme characters performing “Ring Around the Rosie.” The book was first published in 1922 and the image is therefore in the public domain.

If the plague story is folklore, we would expect to encounter it in different versions and variants. And so we do. The two main variants are the Londonist’s claim that the rhyme refers to the Great Plague of 1665, and others’ claims that it stems from the Black Death of 1347. Within these two main variants, there are sub-variants: in particular, FitzGerald and others say the 1665 rhyme originated in London, while others say it came from Eyam, a village in the English Midlands that was also infected with plague in 1665. One article even claims Eyam children sang it “while dancing around the victims!”

There are also innumerable individual versions of this story, each with its own quirks. Because the plague can infect different parts of the body and cause different symptoms, because people know about or imagine different historical health practices, and because different versions of the rhyme have different specific words, plague stories vary widely in the correspondences they find between words and plague experiences: for some, “a-tishoo” signifies a sneeze, while for others “ashes” signify cremation. For supporters of pneumonic plague, the ring is a rosy skin rash, while for supporters of the bubonic plague it’s a red inflammation around a black buboe. In fact, observing the many different ways in which “Ring Around the Rosie” has been said to conform to real or supposed symptoms, it seems clear that the story did not grow from compelling evidence; rather, evidence has been gathered to support a compelling story.

Metafolkloric stories can be either accurate or inaccurate, but in either case, there’s usually a compelling reason we keep telling them, or a deeper truth they express. So one question folklorists like to ask is: “What has been so interesting to people about this story?” That’s a hard question to answer, but we can note certain patterns in the kinds of people who tell it. It’s very appealing to historians, for whom a glimpse of the distant past in the present is always exciting. It’s especially compelling to historians of the plagues themselves; in fact, standard works about the 1347 plague and the 1665 plague recount the story as fact. Part of the task of such historians is to explain how the plague has continued to influence our lives, and the chance to mention a rhyme everyone knows and connect it to this deep history is irresistible. Secondly, the story is often told by advocates for particular places. Travel blogs spread the Eyam story, while Londonist “celebrates London and everything that happens in it.” Advocates for medical education and even for sanitary sewers have used the song’s supposed connection to disease to suggest that their particular expertise remains relevant to anyone who has heard this common rhyme. Finally, there are many people with a love of the macabre, and nothing is more disturbing than the idea of little children playing to a description of pestilence and death.

Our love for the plague story goes deeper than the agendas of a few interest groups, though.  Even professors who know it’s not true can’t resist telling it!  Folklorists know better than anyone the fascination with things that are older than they seem, and with “extraordinary origins of everyday things.” Some founders of the discipline of folklore espoused the theory of survivals, which held that cultural materials such as nursery rhymes preserved information from the past that was otherwise forgotten. To adherents of this theory, a shard of pottery, a riddle, or a child’s jingle could be the key that unlocked the mythology of the distant past, and the folklorist’s task was to interpret or decode the cryptic messages within these fragments. In fact, the irony is that the plague story resembles nothing so much as a nineteenth-century folklorist’s interpretation of the rhyme, but today’s folklorists often express annoyance with the tale’s persistence. Maybe it reminds us too much of ourselves.

In any case, we certainly understand its appeal: in the marketplace of ideas, a good story often outsells mere facts.

Do you know an interesting story about a nursery rhyme that you’re curious about?  Leave us a comment below!

 

Resources

Several of the books cited above with links to their Library of Congress catalog records are also available elsewhere as free electronic resources.  The Library of Congress can’t always vouch for the quality of reproduction, the accuracy of the text, or the beauty of the presentation, but they may be useful to our readers.  These items are in the public domain:

Mother Goose or the Old Nursery Rhymes, illustrated by Kate Greenaway

Ring O’ Roses, by Leonard Leslie Brooke

A Journal of the Plague Year, by Daniel Defoe

The Diary of Samuel Pepys, 1659-1669, edited by Henry B. Wheatley

 

37 Comments

  1. Lisa P.
    July 24, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    One that I have sometimes heard is that “Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary” is a reference to Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots. I have my doubts, but would be interested in knowing more about the idea.

  2. Stephen Winick
    July 24, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    Thanks, Lisa. That idea has been around for a long time, but there are competing interpretations too. One holds that it is a description of Our Lady’s convent, which would metaphorically be Mary’s garden. The bells are the church bells, the shells were worn as badges by pilgrims, and the maids are the nuns. The story about Mary Queen of Scots suggests that the shells and bells were decorations on her dress, and the pretty maids her ladies-in-waiting, the famous “Four Marys.”

    As the Opies point out, the connection to Mary Queen of Scots is certainly somebody’s guess; there is no real evidence for it. But it’s not impossible: while the rhyme was not recorded until 1744, there is a dance tune whose title is “Cuckolds all in a Row,” which is a line of one 18th-century version of the Mary rhyme. The tune fits the rhyme, and goes back at least to 1651, which suggests the rhyme could be that old. Mary Queen of Scots died in 1587, so there isn’t that great a time gap between her life and the first stirrings of evidence of the rhyme.

  3. Patricia A. Atkinson
    July 24, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    ” nothing is more disturbing than the idea of little children playing to a description of pestilence and death” – Actually, the idea of little children dancing and singing around actual plague victims is more disturbing, at least to me! 😉

    I always enjoy reading Stephen’s essays on things folkloric. They are well-researched, well-written, and often both amusing and enlightening.

    ~ Pat

  4. Stephen Winick
    July 24, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Your point is taken, Pat! And thanks for your kind comment!

  5. Bob Danforth
    July 25, 2014 at 12:00 am

    I would be very interested in seeing links to old books go to the scans of the actual old books where copyright or other impediment is not at issue. This seems to be an increasing trend among libraries and museums to maintain such archives. It hugely increases access and at the same time protects and preserves the actual copy, causing far less deterioration as 90% of the needs for any access can be achieved in the digital archive.

    I would find it very interesting to correlate (and a page of fixed links could do it) the many political conversations that could not be had openly for fear that you would be killed, but a tune hummed or a nursery rhyme could be equally devastating and no individual could be charged with actual advocacy.

    Such a list could provide many fascinating details not normally recorded.

  6. Paul Cowdell
    July 25, 2014 at 7:55 am

    Thanks, this is great. Eyam’s accumulating a whole range of plague-related motifs. In the village you can find, for example, a weathervane representing a plague-spreading rat, even though the village legend traditions don’t blame this particular outbreak of plague on rats at all. (The infected fleas are supposed to have arrived in a parcel of cloth delivered to a village tailor).

  7. Abby Sale
    July 25, 2014 at 4:50 pm

    Nice article. Thank you.

    I heard, and accepted, that the plague explanation was merely a “Just So” story for 50 years but it was always just summarily dismissed. If an explanation was given, it was a statement that there is no evidence to accept that it’s true and the burden is on the claimer. Of course, that’s true but it’s far more satisfying to read the negative evidence and reasoning that _does_ exist.

    I feel better now.

  8. B. Ross
    July 26, 2014 at 11:52 am

    You know, the way it was explained to me had nothing to do with the traits of the disease itself. Rather, it was about the morality of it all.

    “Ring around the Rosie” — refers to counting the Rosary while praying. Both Catholicism and Church of England have this tradition.
    “Pocket Full of Posies” — explained to me as stuffing the pockets of the dead with flowers to help ward off stench, but may also be a reference to “Posie rings” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posie_ring)
    “Ashes, ashes” — as in “ashes to ashes, dust to dust”
    “We all fall down” — self-explanatory in this context.

    This is not to say that this interpretation is any less apocryphal than the ones outlined above–and the fact that “ashes, ashes” is an American variant is especially abrogating–but as interpreted above, it is a cohesive thought relative to one aspect of the Plague.

    In fact, given the multiple variations and interpretations above, it is unlikely that it was ever written specifically to reference the plague. But who’s to say that it wasn’t appropriated and repurposed for that? After all, Folklore is replete with examples of cultural appropriation.

  9. Stephen Winick
    July 28, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    B. Ross, thanks for your comment and your unusual version of the Plague story. It’s still unlikely that the rhyme was appropriated and repurposed at the time of the plague, simply because there’s no evidence it existed then. But it is certainly true that the rhyme was appropriated and repurposed to tell a story about the plague after the fact. Usually the story is a variant of “the Plague affected modern life in unexpected ways.” Your version is no exception; in this case, it’s the prayers in response to the Plague that became a nursery rhyme rather than a description of its effects. So the emphasis, as you say, is on the moral and spiritual aspects rather than the physical and medical.

  10. Stephen Winick
    July 29, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Bob Danforth, thanks for your comment. The Library of Congress doesn’t have a large collection of online digital public domain books over which we exercise strict quality control, but we do participate in projects to digitize books, including the Hathi Trust. I’ve added a resource list with links to online versions of the four public-domain items cited in the text. In three cases I used the Hathi Trust versions, although others are available on the internet. For the Pepys diary, I opted for another site, because the diary is a multivolume work and the relevant entries spread over three of the volumes. For that reason, I selected a simple HTML site presenting the entire text, so readers wouldn’t have to search each volume separately.

  11. Joe Hickerson
    August 5, 2014 at 7:22 pm

    Great article! Well done! I seem to recall that during the 1959+ Ban the Bomb movement in England, one poet published two small collections of re-worked nursery rhymes, etc., on the subject. One, as I recall, was “A-ring around a neutron / a-pocket full of positron / a-fission, a-fission / we all fall down.” Kind-a like your 1949 example.

  12. Ann Canning
    August 6, 2014 at 8:19 am

    I can make a personal note that corroborates the Texas 1939 Lomax version of this song. I spent my childhood in the Piedmont region of North Carolina (Winston-Salem) and distinctly remember in the 1940’s on the Elementary School playground singing this song with these words: Ring around the Rosie, Pocketful of posies. Red Bird, Blue Bird, Squat! Rosie was the child in the middle and the last child in the ring to squat became the next Rosie. I don’t know why we would have said Red Bird, Blue Bird instead of Light Bread, Sweet Bread as they did in Texas. But I do know that my grandmother and mother did not bake light or yeast breads. They only made quick breads like corn bread and biscuits.

  13. Stephen Winick
    August 11, 2014 at 11:03 am

    Thanks for the interesting North Carolina version and the description of the game, Ann. It’s always nice to get new folklore items from our readers!

  14. Stephen Winick
    August 11, 2014 at 11:05 am

    Thanks, Joe. By then the idea that “Ring Around the Rosie” was about the Plague was already common in England, which is probably where the idea came from to connect it to other deadly disasters.

  15. Dolly Jørgensen
    August 22, 2014 at 2:36 am

    Has anyone suggested that the “A-tishoo! A-tishoo!” line might be related to sneezing because of the flowers themselves? Certainly taking a whiff of strong smelling fresh flowers might induce that reaction in many, especially of course if you have allergies.

  16. Stephen Winick
    August 22, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    That’s certainly a possibility for those versions that feature sneezing sounds. Thanks for the suggestion!

  17. rishitha
    August 26, 2014 at 4:42 am

    I was very intrested in reading the articles on folkloric.That are really good.

  18. Judith Cohen
    October 31, 2014 at 11:14 am

    Love that Texas version! Folklore in general, and sometimes children’s folklore in particular, is – very often – so refreshingly non-pc…

  19. Black Death
    December 10, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    This is refferd to the Black Death,”ashes ashes”-the corpses after the Black Death were all burned so that makes sense,everything else,look for another comment

  20. Renate van den Bosch
    December 22, 2014 at 7:43 am

    Hi, this rhyme was also used in a childrens television series, in which a girl living or visiting an old manor house has visions of soldiers marching through the same house in past times. Does anyone know the name of this TV show?? Don’t know whether it was British or American, it was broadcast in the seventies, maybe early eighties.

  21. lovetina
    May 21, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    i want to know the true meaning,
    if the song means something bad or evil

  22. Stephen Winick
    May 21, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    It doesn’t seem to mean anything bad or evil. It seems to be a game where the words describe the actions the kids are supposed to do. In some versions, kids kiss other kids, so your reaction might depend on the version and on what you think is proper behavior!

  23. Brigita
    May 24, 2015 at 1:01 pm

    “Ring around the rosie”: Once I was in London, i’ve heard the story that when a person was brought to execution and was going warded through the streets to the execution place – people, family members or supporters threw flowers to them and sang the song to them.

  24. Jessica Rubinstein
    May 24, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    With absolutely no evidence, except the unsatisfactoriness of explanations I have found, I have always wondered if “There was an old woman who lived in a shoe” might be an unkind British satire concerning the Catholic Church, with the shoe a reference to the shape of Italy. The specifics about the whipping, the broth, etc. would depend on the political moment in which the rhyme originated, the inquisition being a possible reference. Has anyone ever looked into the possibility?

  25. Stephen Winick
    May 26, 2015 at 9:50 am

    Thanks, Brigita, for your comment. It’s interesting that completely different stories exist connecting the rhyme to earlier historical periods and to death imagery. All such stories are metafolklore, and so far none of them has any good evidence to back it up. As I said in the post, it is possible for metafolkloric stories to also be true, but in these cases no reference to the rhyme at all turns up before 1881, and public executions ceased in England in 1868; after that executions were usually conducted in private within the prison where the prisoner already was kept, so there was no journey to a place of execution. So, while it’s not impossible that the rhyme was used that way before 1868, there’s no direct evidence, and all the indirect evidence points the other way: the rhyme probably didn’t exist when public executions were common in England. In general, most folklorists would call that story a fascinating variant of the general idea that the seemingly simple and innocent nursery rhyme actually has a dark and secret history.

  26. Stephen Winick
    May 26, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Thanks, Jessica. I have seen that interpretation, but I do not know its origin. The version I saw did not mention the inquisition, just the generally impoverished conditions of many Catholics in the south of Italy, which does suggest certain historical periods over others. This reading turns up in various dark corners of the web, such as this one. A more general interpretation notes that shoes are an old fertility symbol, showing up in such contexts as Cinderella’s glass slipper and the old custom of throwing shoes at the bride and groom at a wedding (which survives today in the form of tying old shoes to the rear bumper of their car). Alan Dundes discusses this in his essay “Projection in Folklore,” available in the book Interpreting Folklore. His idea seems to be that the old woman “living in a shoe” suggests an over-emphasis on sexuality, which leads to having too many children, but he is not explicit on this point. As he so often does, he flits from folklore item to folklore item, discussing at greater length another rhyme:

    Cock-a-doodle-doo
    My dame has lost her shoe
    My master’s lost his fiddling-stick
    They don’t know what to do

    This rhyme can also be found in the classic collections by Iona and Peter Opie. As Dundes points out, the fact that a wife loses her “shoe” and a husband his “stick,” leading to them “not knowing what to do” is certainly suggestive that these are sexual metaphors. However, as with much humorously sexual folklore, there is also an innocent explanation: they were planning to go to a dance, where he would have contributed to the music and she to the dancing. With only one shoe and one fiddlestick, they won’t be able to perform their roles!

  27. Pat O’ Mahony
    June 17, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    Hi
    I am Irish,and was born in Ireland in 1956 and remember when I was very young that our elders explained,

    ‘ ring- a- ring- a- rosie ,
    a pocket full of posie,
    atishoo,atushoo,
    we all fall down

    as being a London city children’s game.

    ‘ring -a -ring -a rosy’
    they explained as tuberculosis (TB) the pale round rose color on the patient’s cheeks
    ‘ a pocket full of posies ‘
    they explained that doctors attending this patient carried pockets of lavender herb which they used as a disinfectant to protect themselves from contracting the disease.They would regularly remove a bunch of lavender from their pockets and crush and wash their hands and face with it.
    ‘a-tishoo a-tishoo’
    they explained as being on deaths door
    ‘we all fall down’
    they explained as death in very large numbers or an epidemic.

    This version continues to be retold and is most popular here in Ireland.

  28. Stephen Winick
    June 17, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    Thanks for those details, Pat. It’s very interesting that in Irish versions of the legend from the 1950s and 1960s, the disease had become tuberculosis. It shows that, while the legend can serve to associate the rhyme with the Middle Ages, other versions can be more up to date while preserving the same basic story!

  29. bill
    June 27, 2015 at 11:31 pm

    “It is what it is” !!

  30. Stephen Winick
    June 30, 2015 at 10:28 am

    Thanks, Bill! I assume you are suggesting that “Ring Around the Rosie” doesn’t require the plague explanation; it simply is what it appears to be at first glance: a cute kids’ game. This is a good point, and it’s interesting that you used metafolklore to express it.

    How is it metafolklore? Most folklorists would characterize “it is what it is” as a proverb. “It is what it is” is a certain kind of proverb, a formulaic, seemingly tautological statement. Other examples of this kind of proverb include “business is business,” “a promise is a promise,” or, as Robert Burns observed, “a man’s a man.” All of these proverbs seem to be merely statements of the obvious. But proverbs have the interesting characteristic that most of them don’t mean merely what they say; most have a figurative meaning. The figurative meaning of these proverbs saves them from tautology. That figurative meaning is some version of “one example of x should be treated as another example of x.” Business is business, so don’t expect a special discount because you’re friends with the store owner. A promise is a promise, so don’t think you can get out of yours. A man’s a man, so don’t treat rich people better than poor people.

    “It is what it is” works in much the same way. “The deadline has been moved up a week. It is what it is, so don’t try to change it.” It’s a type of folklore that’s been around a long time, even though the specific phrase “it is what it is” has become popular only recently. In this case, too, the phrase is not only folklore but also metafolklore, because the “it” in the proverb refers to “Ring Around the Rosie,” another item of folklore. Thus, you have generated a metafolkloric response to an article about metafolklore. Well done!

  31. Deb in Denver
    July 30, 2015 at 1:12 pm

    I stumbled here by accident – isn’t the ‘net a wonderful invention? One thing I’ve wondered about in regard to this rhyme: while all humans presumably make the same sound while sneezing & have for eons, is it a coincidence that the ppl who make facial “tissue” named their product after the sound made in the third line of the RAtR chant? I think the Americanized “atchoo” sounds more like a sneeze, but the alleged orig. “atishoo” could be heard the same way. But going one step further, is it possible that “a tishoo” is simply a mnemonic for “a tissue”? I’d suggest that may be the case, esp. after reading in your exc. article that it wasn’t until after WWII that the theories sprang up connecting RAtR with the black death/plague. Oh, we knew a bit about germs, but it wasn’t until that war we pushed hard to garner yet more info to help in the fight to keep humans alive longer. So disposal tissues helped go a distance down that road. Throwing away germy, diseased paper made more sense than coming in intimate contact with said disease by hand-washing reusable cloth. (I too have read about plague coming to England’s midlands by a shipment of cloth to a tailor.) It might have been a serendipitous way in the 40s to neatly wrap up loose ends, as it were.
    Yeah, I know – I’m probably full of it, but I do so enjoy pondering odd things 😉

  32. Larry
    September 18, 2015 at 3:04 pm

    I have always considered the rhyme to be about the plague, but being from England I may think that.
    The first line is into reference of the symptoms either the rash or boil type thing.
    The second is in reference to the “quacks” or doctors with the big masks with a beak looking thing on them which they would stuff with lavander and that kinda stuff because the smells weren’t all that.
    The 3rd, just another symptom, you get ill and sneeze.
    Lastly we all fall down, lots and lots of people died.
    Only to be stopped or helped come to an end by the great fire of London, which has another rhyme to it.
    Humpty dumpty is also about a cannon that fell during the civil war(the British one) and that was a cannon that was in Colchester

  33. Caroline Daniels
    September 29, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    Can you tell me what the Jack and Jill ryme means. You know, Jack and Jill went up the hill to get a bucket of water. That would be nice to know what that means.

  34. Kat
    December 25, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    I have never heard of any of your versions. I am 61 yrs old and the version I grew up with was: Ring around the Rosie, pocket full of posies, Ashes, ashes , all fall down. More sinister than any of yours. I also asked friends and family and they also only know of my version

  35. Stephen Winick
    December 28, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Thanks for your comment, Kat. As I pointed out, the “sinister” interpretation of the rhyme emerged in the 1950s, exactly the era when you were born and your version seemed to be standard. So it’s not a coincidence that your version (or one close to it) is the one discussed in the plague interpretation: the whole point was to use the most popular version of the rhyme to make it seem sinister. But if the plague interpretation were true, we’d expect it to apply most closely to the oldest versions, not the version that became standardized through print in the 20th century.

  36. Melissa
    January 30, 2016 at 10:48 am

    I grew up in the late 60s and early 70s and I don’t remember ever actually playing these games, not “Rosie,” not Snap the Whip or Red rover. We had Hide ‘n Seek, of course.

    I lived in a neighborhood without that many kids in it, maybe with the burgeoning of suburbia we lost some of these traditions.

  37. Linda
    June 2, 2016 at 10:24 pm

    I am age 73. Here is the Ring Around the Rosie rhyme kids in my area sang.

    Ring around the rosie
    Pocket full of posies
    E spur I spur
    Squat

    I was shocked when I had children to hear and see in writing “ashes, ashes, all fall down.” I laid this to its having been passed down orally through generations of children whose ancestors came from England. But I could not let go the thought that our verse must have at one time made sense. I had heard that rosie was the boil and posies in the pocket were to help the odor of the diarrhea that accompanied the plague. But what was a “spur and an “e”. Here is how I made sense of the version that we sang. considering that nobody saw it in writing and it was handed down by children.

    Ring around the rosie
    Pocket full of posies
    Ye purge, I purge
    Squat.

    I think this makes sense in context of the plague time and it is logical that at some point “ye” would have morphed to “e” “purge” to “spur”. I hope my version will be in the blog and that I will hear the thoughts of others on the matter.

Add a Comment

This blog is governed by the general rules of respectful civil discourse. You are fully responsible for everything that you post. The content of all comments is released into the public domain unless clearly stated otherwise. The Library of Congress does not control the content posted. Nevertheless, the Library of Congress may monitor any user-generated content as it chooses and reserves the right to remove content for any reason whatever, without consent. Gratuitous links to sites are viewed as spam and may result in removed comments. We further reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to remove a user's privilege to post content on the Library site. Read our Comment and Posting Policy.

Required fields are indicated with an * asterisk.